Another excellent post with good links and lots to think about. Thanks. I used to think I was the only one who saw it this kind of way. If I ever tried to discuss it eyes glazed over and yawns were barely stifled. So great to meet you Dr. For me - at least - the problem is not so much that science has become like a religion ( although of course it has) it is more that what is good about science has been hijacked by the powerful and applied to wrong object for the wrong reasons. Just like religion in fact. perhaps any form of knowledge, that aims at truth, will be hijacked and misapplied. Science is great when it sticks to it proper domain - forces and relations between real objects. It is pretty lousy when applied to the mystery of human life or history or indeed (as recently seen) medicine. Religion is great when it sticks to its proper domain - the nature of the soul, the meaning of death and birth. Problems happen when these knowledge forms stray, or are forced to stray, into domains they have no business to be in; political science or religious cosmology. The powerful badly want to be right all the time. If they are right all the time they can do what they want and get away with it. So the first thing to do if you want to get and hold power, is get the current model of truth thoroughly on your side. Cosmology is a great place to start and a great place to be right about. Religion had things in this regard pretty much all its own way for a long time. Then the telescope and accurate observations ruined that ascendancy. Next science tried to validate itself in the same area but as telescopes improved and radio telescopes were invented problems arose for science ( you have described this very well). Perhaps the lesson of all this is that any form of human knowledge is only ever partial and only really has value and utility in some more or less restricted domain of human experience, but the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased. Shame. Human all too human.
Thanks David - that is an excellent post and summary of the problems we face. Totally agree with what you wrote - Religion straying into domains that it should be quiet about eg. Climate, or the Big Bang, or Evolution - all of them religious in nature and in opposition to the 'traditational' Deisms. The CC fails to recognise them as mere theories but embraces them in some form. Science ignores that 'religion' created modern maths and the scientific method, and sets itself in opposition to religion (eg Darwinism, Atheistic Big Bang) and than blames religion for a 'conflict'! Science now tries to control all aspects of life, inserting itself everywhere including into health, politics, social construction and religious imperatives. Almost everything is 'follow some science' or other, with science left undefined.
Some excellent books have been written on the complementary relationship between the 2 over many centuries, but much of 'science' especially from the bizarrely named 'enlightenment' (more Whig propaganda) has decided that only its church is valid. As you said, "the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased". There is lots of positive in real science, but today we see scientism - that ugly combination of money, power, lies, fraud and endless government, merging with corporate interests (Schwab last week said that the state and large corporations need to merge and rule the world https://slaynews.com/news/klaus-schwab-calls-governments-merge-unelected-corporate-elite/). So many 'conspiracy theories' so little time.....The average person has no idea that real science has been completely usurped and this process has been on-going for well over 200 years.
Religion straying into domains that it should be quiet about eg. Climate, or the Big Bang, or Evolution - all of them religious in nature and in opposition to the 'traditational' Deisms. The CC fails to recognise them as mere theories but embraces them in some form.
They are as you say "mere theories" and it makes me suspect that the intellectual leaders of the CC are not up to very much if they are blind to this or perhaps they are so jealous of the dominance of science, as the arbiter of truth, that they are trying to grab some of that truth for themselves before they lose all relevance in the 'modern' world. Either way it is unwise and will do - I think - the CC more damage in the end. It is not so much that science and religion are either compatible or incompatible knowledge forms but rather than religion is enormously bigger covering far more domains of human experience. But sadly religion seems to have forgotten this. Science is really a rather small form of knowledge useful for the making of engines, guns or clocks or drawing maps are designing buildings - that sort of thing. But hopeless at explaining history, politics, society, medicine, life, love, beauty, ethics, death etc. Old style religion was far better at explaining those things.
Science ignores that 'religion' created modern maths and the scientific method, and sets itself in opposition to religion (eg Darwinism, Atheistic Big Bang) and than blames religion for a 'conflict'!
It is pretty ironic.
Science now tries to control all aspects of life, inserting itself everywhere including into health, politics, social construction and religious imperatives. Almost everything is 'follow some science' or other, with science left undefined.
Absolutely - one of my personal top ten most hated missuses of so called science is what has come to be called "dyslexia". Pretty obviously so called "vaccination" is right up there too. These days I am coming round to thinking that most science based medicine is also all wrong for the same ultimate reason. I have not even got into economics or law or commerce. So yes we are in agreement on this. It is bad. No question. I really would rather deal with the Spanish Inquisition than the vaccine court or the medical zealots and their endless drugs mandating you to an early demise.
Some excellent books have been written on the complementary relationship between the 2 over many centuries, but much of 'science' especially from the bizarrely named 'enlightenment' (more Whig propaganda) has decided that only its church is valid. As you said, "the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased".
There is lots of positive in real science
Absolutely. Real science can do great things to improve life but all too soon becomes much much too much of a good thing and then tips over into a very bad thing.
I often dream I had a time machine and could go back to life before science. Just imagine a world without plastic!
, but today we see scientism - that ugly combination of money, power, lies, fraud and endless government, merging with corporate interests (Schwab last week said that the state and large corporations need to merge and rule the world https://slaynews.com/news/klaus-schwab-calls-governments-merge-unelected-corporate-elite/). So many 'conspiracy theories' so little time.....The average person has no idea that real science has been completely usurped and this process has been on-going for well over 200 years.
I agree. That fellow really does look exactly like Dr Evil.
I fear this will be the path to damnation - one way or another - for the poor old foolish human race and it is probably already too late.
Agree with your sentiments. 'Science' is now a Church (with many chapels) trying to control all aspects of life. 'Trust the Science' they screamed during the Rona plandemic. Look at the carnage from the stabbinations all over the world and it is just getting started if we look at cancers and heart disease. No science in any of the Rona policies. But the 'Science' has moved on and is now worried about more scariants caused by non-existing boiling from the plant food (and the 5% from humans only, of the 0.04% total emissions). How 'Science' can term Co2 a toxin is beyond stupid but there you are. How a 0.3% or less IFR is a 'pandemic' is also beyond stupid. But here we are, with millions ready for more diapers and stabs and probably looking forward to LDs to give them a religious meaning in their lives. One aspect of the coming NWO is the need for metaphysical help and guidance in opposing the obvious fascism. Praying and taking strength from the immaterial. This 'Scientism' is a spiritual and physical war.
"Science is really a rather small form of knowledge useful for the making of engines, guns or clocks or drawing maps are designing buildings - that sort of thing. But hopeless at explaining history, politics, society, medicine, life, love, beauty, ethics, death etc"
Spot on. Society conflates an iphone with 'science' and bows down before the white jackets on all topics. This is the opposite of critical thinking which is the basis of the scientific method. An application is not 'science' and does not mean that 'science' can dictate all the areas of our lives - as you mentioned it has nothing to say about life, origins, beauty, culture, emotions, bonds and being a good person. I believe that Governments were entirely shocked and surprised about how easy it was to implement the Medical Nazism with Rona. Undoubtedly they are cooking up Round 2 maybe merging the boiling with the scariants. That most of Churches rolled over for money (they were all paid to comply) reminds one of the large indifference to Nazism during the 1930s by most Churches (as Hitler sneered, the priests and bishops vote with their pensions). Not much has changed in 100 years.
Another excellent post with good links and lots to think about. Thanks. I used to think I was the only one who saw it this kind of way. If I ever tried to discuss it eyes glazed over and yawns were barely stifled. So great to meet you Dr. For me - at least - the problem is not so much that science has become like a religion ( although of course it has) it is more that what is good about science has been hijacked by the powerful and applied to wrong object for the wrong reasons. Just like religion in fact. perhaps any form of knowledge, that aims at truth, will be hijacked and misapplied. Science is great when it sticks to it proper domain - forces and relations between real objects. It is pretty lousy when applied to the mystery of human life or history or indeed (as recently seen) medicine. Religion is great when it sticks to its proper domain - the nature of the soul, the meaning of death and birth. Problems happen when these knowledge forms stray, or are forced to stray, into domains they have no business to be in; political science or religious cosmology. The powerful badly want to be right all the time. If they are right all the time they can do what they want and get away with it. So the first thing to do if you want to get and hold power, is get the current model of truth thoroughly on your side. Cosmology is a great place to start and a great place to be right about. Religion had things in this regard pretty much all its own way for a long time. Then the telescope and accurate observations ruined that ascendancy. Next science tried to validate itself in the same area but as telescopes improved and radio telescopes were invented problems arose for science ( you have described this very well). Perhaps the lesson of all this is that any form of human knowledge is only ever partial and only really has value and utility in some more or less restricted domain of human experience, but the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased. Shame. Human all too human.
Thanks David - that is an excellent post and summary of the problems we face. Totally agree with what you wrote - Religion straying into domains that it should be quiet about eg. Climate, or the Big Bang, or Evolution - all of them religious in nature and in opposition to the 'traditational' Deisms. The CC fails to recognise them as mere theories but embraces them in some form. Science ignores that 'religion' created modern maths and the scientific method, and sets itself in opposition to religion (eg Darwinism, Atheistic Big Bang) and than blames religion for a 'conflict'! Science now tries to control all aspects of life, inserting itself everywhere including into health, politics, social construction and religious imperatives. Almost everything is 'follow some science' or other, with science left undefined.
Some excellent books have been written on the complementary relationship between the 2 over many centuries, but much of 'science' especially from the bizarrely named 'enlightenment' (more Whig propaganda) has decided that only its church is valid. As you said, "the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased". There is lots of positive in real science, but today we see scientism - that ugly combination of money, power, lies, fraud and endless government, merging with corporate interests (Schwab last week said that the state and large corporations need to merge and rule the world https://slaynews.com/news/klaus-schwab-calls-governments-merge-unelected-corporate-elite/). So many 'conspiracy theories' so little time.....The average person has no idea that real science has been completely usurped and this process has been on-going for well over 200 years.
Religion straying into domains that it should be quiet about eg. Climate, or the Big Bang, or Evolution - all of them religious in nature and in opposition to the 'traditational' Deisms. The CC fails to recognise them as mere theories but embraces them in some form.
They are as you say "mere theories" and it makes me suspect that the intellectual leaders of the CC are not up to very much if they are blind to this or perhaps they are so jealous of the dominance of science, as the arbiter of truth, that they are trying to grab some of that truth for themselves before they lose all relevance in the 'modern' world. Either way it is unwise and will do - I think - the CC more damage in the end. It is not so much that science and religion are either compatible or incompatible knowledge forms but rather than religion is enormously bigger covering far more domains of human experience. But sadly religion seems to have forgotten this. Science is really a rather small form of knowledge useful for the making of engines, guns or clocks or drawing maps are designing buildings - that sort of thing. But hopeless at explaining history, politics, society, medicine, life, love, beauty, ethics, death etc. Old style religion was far better at explaining those things.
Science ignores that 'religion' created modern maths and the scientific method, and sets itself in opposition to religion (eg Darwinism, Atheistic Big Bang) and than blames religion for a 'conflict'!
It is pretty ironic.
Science now tries to control all aspects of life, inserting itself everywhere including into health, politics, social construction and religious imperatives. Almost everything is 'follow some science' or other, with science left undefined.
Absolutely - one of my personal top ten most hated missuses of so called science is what has come to be called "dyslexia". Pretty obviously so called "vaccination" is right up there too. These days I am coming round to thinking that most science based medicine is also all wrong for the same ultimate reason. I have not even got into economics or law or commerce. So yes we are in agreement on this. It is bad. No question. I really would rather deal with the Spanish Inquisition than the vaccine court or the medical zealots and their endless drugs mandating you to an early demise.
Some excellent books have been written on the complementary relationship between the 2 over many centuries, but much of 'science' especially from the bizarrely named 'enlightenment' (more Whig propaganda) has decided that only its church is valid. As you said, "the political value of truth is so great that any example of it or type of knowledge that leads to it will be exploited beyond its potential and so debased".
There is lots of positive in real science
Absolutely. Real science can do great things to improve life but all too soon becomes much much too much of a good thing and then tips over into a very bad thing.
I often dream I had a time machine and could go back to life before science. Just imagine a world without plastic!
, but today we see scientism - that ugly combination of money, power, lies, fraud and endless government, merging with corporate interests (Schwab last week said that the state and large corporations need to merge and rule the world https://slaynews.com/news/klaus-schwab-calls-governments-merge-unelected-corporate-elite/). So many 'conspiracy theories' so little time.....The average person has no idea that real science has been completely usurped and this process has been on-going for well over 200 years.
I agree. That fellow really does look exactly like Dr Evil.
I fear this will be the path to damnation - one way or another - for the poor old foolish human race and it is probably already too late.
Agree with your sentiments. 'Science' is now a Church (with many chapels) trying to control all aspects of life. 'Trust the Science' they screamed during the Rona plandemic. Look at the carnage from the stabbinations all over the world and it is just getting started if we look at cancers and heart disease. No science in any of the Rona policies. But the 'Science' has moved on and is now worried about more scariants caused by non-existing boiling from the plant food (and the 5% from humans only, of the 0.04% total emissions). How 'Science' can term Co2 a toxin is beyond stupid but there you are. How a 0.3% or less IFR is a 'pandemic' is also beyond stupid. But here we are, with millions ready for more diapers and stabs and probably looking forward to LDs to give them a religious meaning in their lives. One aspect of the coming NWO is the need for metaphysical help and guidance in opposing the obvious fascism. Praying and taking strength from the immaterial. This 'Scientism' is a spiritual and physical war.
"Science is really a rather small form of knowledge useful for the making of engines, guns or clocks or drawing maps are designing buildings - that sort of thing. But hopeless at explaining history, politics, society, medicine, life, love, beauty, ethics, death etc"
Spot on. Society conflates an iphone with 'science' and bows down before the white jackets on all topics. This is the opposite of critical thinking which is the basis of the scientific method. An application is not 'science' and does not mean that 'science' can dictate all the areas of our lives - as you mentioned it has nothing to say about life, origins, beauty, culture, emotions, bonds and being a good person. I believe that Governments were entirely shocked and surprised about how easy it was to implement the Medical Nazism with Rona. Undoubtedly they are cooking up Round 2 maybe merging the boiling with the scariants. That most of Churches rolled over for money (they were all paid to comply) reminds one of the large indifference to Nazism during the 1930s by most Churches (as Hitler sneered, the priests and bishops vote with their pensions). Not much has changed in 100 years.